1/4 Point of the season questions

[furr980]

we are now at the 1/4 point of thw 2007 SSS season and it should be at a point where we can start evaluating somethings that are goin on at pageland. thses are some of the things that spoke with mike this morning so i thought id put it on here to get the racers imput and see if they have different things i failed to see. the first question is our nour HRT class and why the car count seems to stay down? this is suppose to be out class for newbies coming into bracket racing and its suffering. i was wanting to know how we can get those people that come on friday to come back on saturday? because they are the ones who will keep our sport goin in the future. the second question or concern was our gamblers race and why havent we ran one recently? this is our race to benefit the track and racers at the bracket finals. also it gives us the racers to win some money on saturday night when we couldnt get it done in the main event. we as racers should push this race harder to track officials to promote this race when eliminations start and are goin on. this will allow more cars to run on the track keeping heat in it and give the fans something to watch while everybody is having their cars cool off. the third thing is the bonus points given to the winners and runner-ups. im not against it but i believe we should either reduce the amount of bonus points or eliminate it. because if you win a few races you could seperate yourself enough to have it wrapped up early in the season. i know im down the list a lil but id like to have a chance at catching those two blue novas driven by the same person :nailbite: . these are just a few things that i have been brainstorming over. please add any views to this and any other things that i have missed. lets try to make pageland the best operation possible. because i believe we have the best facility and track owners in the NC-SC area.

allen furr
62 chevy II FB :propeller:

[2camaroracing]

Hey as for as the bonus points go it makes no difference to me but if you look at it this way say the person leading goes out first rd then you end up winning with out a lost you gained those 3 points on them to where if there were no bonus all you would get is the rd's you win it could be a win win deal either way we got to go with the rest of the year. The HRT class i've not understood anyway we tried a trophy class last year and it did the same thing 1 or 2 races then it fizzeled out. Now about the gamblers race it appears to goin like it was before the race season started during T/T weekend's we go up for T/T expect a gamglers race thin nothing never is mentioned thin if you ask about it the responce is well no one said anything about it is not only up to the racer's we have enough on our mind's but there is no doubt about it we have plenty of time to get it done & not only take a chance at alittle money but if you if lost out of the at 2nd rd then you can turn the gamblers race into a T/T for yourself maybe the car was off or you was off for the night who know's what ever may have happened it is a win win deal i say the track needs to get more involed unless there ready to go home because of the long hr's they pull at the track but like u said this is supposed to help out with expense for team

[furr980]

well we need to make the HRT class as popular as possible because those the people that will keep our sport goin. we cant be so closed minded to think that the sport will take care of itself because in this day and age people have other forms of entertainment to get that fix, and if we cant get those 100-150 guys that show up on fridays to come back on saturday we to will be another rockingham.

allen furr

[bryn1]

the biggest reason or one of them for the low car count is that on friday nite you have the younger generation out racing they dont care about the future of bracket racing you may get a few but for the most part its just kids hanging out with friends most of them have something else to do on a saturday nite and the rest dont wont to spend a whole saturday at a race track in the hot sun as sad as it sounds it the truth alot of people dont run in the classes on friday nite because they have grudge run cars and its not worth it to them to beat on their cars for a trophy and a shirt when they are probably going to run someone for money it would probably get a few more to run on friday if the classes were no timed but that takes away from the spectators why not just go back to a regular test n tune with a gamblers race keeping the box and no box cars seperate for as long as possible but most people are building cars just to put up a number you have guys who win more in one grudge race than the payout for all the classes combined thats where the trend is going im a bracketracer myself but you have to look at it with an opened mind

[furr980]

im in aggrence with you bryn1. i believe we need to find out what it will take for these guys to come back on saturdays because their has to be some way gettting them back on saturday, but ur right with thinking about it with an open mind.

[bryn1]

well theres things to try maybe trying to let the ones who enter on fri. have a free entry into the trophy class or let the winners have a free pass into the race on saturday theres gonna have to be some giving in the beginning have a free entry for the trophy race for spectators maybe put up a lil money just to get people on the track let people see that they dont have to face a every week bracketracer that it is all beginners most people dont understand bracketracing so they dont bother they just watch the key is to make it affordable for the family man who maybe cant afford the full entry fee plus the family 15 or 20 dollars dont sound like alot but if a person has a wife or a husband and 2 or 3 kids it adds up quick these are just a few ideas i dont know if it would work i got introduced to bracketracing at a early age and have loved it since but maybe times are changing

[2camaroracing]

Allen by no means was i being negative bout the HRT class i to would like to see the field packed with trophy cars to give the GTO some competion LOL:laughing: i think it's awsome to drive in an run 8.75 but you got to look at where the racer's are coming from now our JR'S that come through the JR'S rank are going straight either FB,OR PRO the one's that have'nt been in JR'S that come with dad on SAT that are old enough now well dad is setting out letting them drive his car or building them one or buying what ever the reason your right it is suffering BRYAN1 your also right the one's that come on FRI are there with friend's or out looking for a grudge race we to are full fledged BRKT RACER'S we have been in it for 21 yr's been to a lot of tracks meet alot of people i know lot's of people that have car's but not raced in several yr's just a thought maybe say for each race car entered in FB OR PRO if the spectator with that car has a lisence and would like to race let them for add 5$ like i said just a thought but one thing for sure we the BRKT RACER have got to do something our sport is falling fast have a good nite talk to you later
Billy

[Mike Bradley]

I stick my neck out here and share my thoughts looking from the inside out.

Flat-Out-Friday vs. Saturday IHRA SSS ET Bracket Race
1)The FOF participant and spectator is looking for a place to go hang out with friends and maybe make some "fun" runs. Friday's have a more fun and festivities type feel. You see people from all back grounds and interest. You may have anything from sport compacts to diesel trucks to ATV' to motorcycles to grudge cars to bracket cars. This is part of the allure for many people in that you never know what will be running on Flat-Out-Friday.
2)During T-N-T both cars leave together making it easier for people to understand that the person who gets to the stripe first wins. The average person doesn't have a clue as to what ET bracket racing is really all about and don't care to learn. Keep it simple, both cars leave together and the first one to the finish line wins. In a perfect world this is the preferred format but without some sort of Index heads-up racing is a $$$ game that most people can't/won't justify the expense to race.
3)Many Friday night patrons will only dedicate one night of the week to feed their motorsports interest. Fridays are a condensed program with many people only spending 2 to 3 hours there. For some they can't justify spending 6 or 8 hours at the track. They enjoy it but aren't dedicated racers.
4)In my humble opinion Friday night spectators don't have any interest in seeing a gamblers ET bracket race. If they wanted to see bracket racing they would return on Saturday to see a well rounded bracket program. A gamblers race on Friday's would do nothing to add cars on Saturday. There is a slim chance it might give the spectators in attendance a glimpse of what the Saturday program would look like.

I've come to the realization that it is much easier to grow a T-N-T program than a race program. It is easier to put fans in the stands on FOF than Saturday unless you package some sort of *special* program.

The IHRA class structure we have on Saturday doesn't do drag racing any favors either. Look at the 2 classes that cars compete in each week and at the team finals. "Top" and "Mod" are classes that have very specific cars built to be competitive. How many new drag racers would be willing to invest in the specialized equipment and devote the time it takes to compete against the likes of Buddy Plyler, Calvin Watson, Michael Beard, or Myron Piatek in Footbrake. In my opinion there needs to be some sort of transitional class for new drag racers where they can campaign their daily driver to keep from having to buy a special purpose built "race" car. Maybe we need some sort of rookie class and really that's what the Hot Rod Trophy class is all about. I would be willing to give all the people who purchase a T-N-T tech card on Friday a *free* entry to HRT on Saturday.

The neat thing about the race classes on Friday and the HRT on Saturday cost just $15 to enter. With our new for 2007 spectator prices of $7/person or $20/carload this should help the family out by allowing them to come out together for a good value for racing.

We need to do a better job of "selling" both our FOF and Saturday night programs. We can't expect people to just find out about it. We have to let everyone know what's available. Our entire program is built upon diversification. The bracket racer should do what they can to help promote all the programs we have each week and many do. I'll try and put together a survey to have people fill out on Friday to see what if anything could be done to have the same group back on Saturday's.

Thanks to all those who see this as a wake up call for drag racing as we know it today. I could go on and on but I won't bore you with my thoughts.

[2camaroracing]

well said Mike Bradly

[bryn1]

that sounds good but what are you going todo about the weekly bracketracer who decides to drive the family car and still knowing they have a unfair advantage against a rookie just learning its like shooting ducks in a barrel thats why you have repeat winners 3 or 4 times in a row this makes the beginner feel he or she is wasting their time we've all been around long enough to know who these people are maybe on friday before first round get all the people entered in whatever class and ask them what it would take for them to come back and race on saturday they know better than anyone else just voicing my thoughts no harm intended

[staginglt]

You can't compete in Trophy and another class at the same time. The 'weekly bracket racer' isn't going to skip running Top or Mod to run for a trophy.

Mike - I think the idea of offering a 'free tech card' to all Friday night participants is a good idea (still pay the $7 general admission).

The biggest trick is finding the audience. There are thousands of people in the region that don't even know the track exists. You have to find out what the best means of advertising is to reach even a small percentage of that group. Then, with your 'captive audience', your spectators on Friday and Saturdays alike (as well as the Friday racers), it's the announcer's job to educate and train those people. It's not enough to call Hot Rod Trophy to the lanes... At that time, we need to be telling people the who, what, when, why, how of Hot Rod Trophy. "YOU can compete!" There's also an opportunity to "sell up" at the gate... telling spectators about the class.

I understand that Fridays are going very well. I guess that offsets HRT not taking off like a rocket, but all things take time.

On to the regular Saturday program - I agree that the bonus points for win/ru are crazy high. It just didn't strike me at the beginning of the season, but when put into context of a 5-6 round race, a Win is like picking up half a race on everybody! Yikes... You can have somebody go to the semis every single week who could trail somebody in the points who was a first round duck, but won a couple of races here and there. I agree with Billy, though too, that that's not something that should be changed in the middle of the season. For next year, I'd suggest either 1 bonus point for a win, period, or else go 10 points to show, 10 points per round won, +5 points for a win, +3 points for a ru, +1 point for earning the 1st round bye from low r/t in qualifying. That would stagger points proportionally to the accomplishment, and break a lot of ties at the end of the season.

Probably need to start pushing the gambler's race again...

I've really enjoyed racing at Pageland this year. Only wish I had more time to gab with people between rounds! But I really like *racing*, as opposed to sitting around all day, too.

[bryn1]

yes i know that but when you have the weekly bracket racer running the rookies on friday night nite they are not going to bother coming on saturday i see it and hear it every friday and before the rules changed you had guys who ran all three so it can be done i was one of them its just more track time for the regulars when you can race on a saturday and be home before 9pm you have a low car count it takes money to draw a car count but the car count needs to come up first but when other people are holding big races or free entry races somebody has to step up to put something on the table to bring the cars in theres nothing to draw cars right its just about the same everywhere keep doing what your doing and you will keep getting what your getting

[Mike Bradley]

yes i know that but when you have the weekly bracket racer running the rookies on friday night nite they are not going to bother coming on saturday i see it and hear it every friday and before the rules changed you had guys who ran all three so it can be done i was one of them its just more track time for the regulars when you can race on a saturday and be home before 9pm you have a low car count it takes money to draw a car count but the car count needs to come up first but when other people are holding big races or free entry races somebody has to step up to put something on the table to bring the cars in theres nothing to draw cars right its just about the same everywhere keep doing what your doing and you will keep getting what your getting
We haven't seen any seasoned bracket racers enter Super Street on Friday's so far. Not very many have any interest in running their street car for a trophy. They feel like it belittles them to race for fun for a trophy. One of the neat things about S/S on Friday and HRT on Saturday is that it cost the same to enter as test and tune. Surely the $15 can't be keeping anyone away on Friday or Saturday. Where else can you go and watch a Friday or Saturday drag race for $7/person or $20/carload and run your car for $8 more for a total investment of $15 on a Friday or Saturday?

In my opinion the purse has very little to do with a consistent car count each and every week. I venture to say if we mirrored any other track in D1 or D2 weekly entry fee and purse structure it would do little to grow a consistent bracket program. I talk with other track owners/operators and they beat themselves up because they don't know why bracket racing isn't growing with new participants like they would like to see. This isn't just something that is facing bracket racing. I talk with track owners/promoters from other types of racing. They are scratching their heads wondering where to lay the blame for soft car and spectator counts. I see it front line with some of my customers. They either have quit racing all together or race whenever they want. Many aren't as hard core as they once were for financial reasons or they've taken up other hobbies.

I walked through the pits April 7th talking with many of the PTRA racers and was talking with them about our July 20th and 21st Ultimate Doorslammer Showdown bracket race and many said "I don't bracket race anymore. I race Index pro tree type events now and enjoy it". Please see the quote as this is their words not mine. We had 108 I think it was entries for the PTRA race with many racers still working on their cars for the 2007 season. Some of these racers have moved from the bracket ranks. I still say it's easier to add 10 spectators than 10 bracket racers. There is a larger pool of potential spectators than there is racers.

Racing at the local level should be a hobby that people do for fun and enjoyment. If I had a hobby that seemed more like a second job then I would be less likely to keep doing it week in week out. I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer for the future of drag racing. The key in my opinion is a well rounded, diversified program that has something for everyone from street cars to Pro Mods. Brian you coined my phrase verbatim. If you keep doing what you been doing you will keep getting what you been getting. Many people hate change. Everything changes at some point in time. Sometimes for the better and sometimes not. Maybe we need to challenge the racers to put together a program for themselves. Just a thought.

[2camaroracing]

Mike i agree with you to some point it may be because of finanical concern but was'nt long ago you could go to a track an i'll use PRO for example $40 would enter for a 1200-300-100 along with rd money begining with 1st rd win agree was'nt but 10 still it was there i now it takes car's spectator's to pay the bill then came along by backs so then the racer's ask the track opertor's are ya putting anything else in the pot well we all know the answer to that now i know this has been about 5-6 yr's ago but like you said thing's change now i'm not saying you do'nt care about the racer's because in my heart i belive you do but when the track's started with all the buy back's less money in the purse well the car count's went down like i stated last nite i can name 15-20 racer's that the only time they come out is for 3000- or more now here we are at the time where gas is going to $3 a gallon race fuel is from 5.50-8.00 a gallon entry fee is $45 an the purse has droped to 1000-300-90 with rd money at 30 benging with 2nd rd win so where do'es that leave us now like i said purse going down everwhere but the racer's expense's are steadliy rising it seem's to me that we need to try and go back to our grass root's what ever it takes to get the car's to come to our track maybe look at some 2500-or 3000 to win races instead of the 7000 like you're doing in JULY don't get me wrong i love the big race's an as long as i can afford it we will support JPD this is just my thought
THANKS Billy

[2camaroracing]

Mike going back to the HRT CLASS no it's not all about the money & this is just a thought i think a free teck card to HRT if you at the FOF may be strecthing it a little bit maybe if at the FOF and would like to run on SAT you get 1/2 off a tech but then here is the catch we used to do this at little DARLINGTON WINNER OF THE RACE GET 50.00 R/U 25.00 PLUS TROPHY but must be none electronic car's slicks OK heck for this i might would try my luck with the F250 if Anne give me the ok:laughing: but it is like you posted there are two groups of people here those that just want fun run's and those that really like the sport if i can be of any help just ask i'll do what ever i can to keep the racer's & spectator's coming to JPD JUST MY THOUGHT'S
Billy

[Tom 396]

"...They feel like it belittles them to race for fun for a trophy..."

Ouch. There's the problem. Folks who have become so jaded that they feel "belittled" by fun and trophies. I'll run for a trophy and some fun any day of the week. In fact, that's exactly what I've been doing for the last 30 years. :biggrin2: Good luck with your program. Sounds as though some folks are at least giving it some serious thought. Take care. Tom Worthington.

http://www.hotrodder.com/Tom396

[bryn1]

relax some of the rules on friday and watch who starts running most footbrake racers will race for the extra practice pro racers will to but its harder on them chasing down everyday street cars billy made some good points maybe not trying to make it all in one weekend but make a lil every weekend the big races are nice but with big money comes big entry fees and gas is not free parts arent free tires arent free and it never will be so there are people who cant afford to race a man cant race his everyday car break it then he's walking to work we all just have to stick together advertise who ever is in charge of this king of the street race coming up is advertising on everything and everywhere billboards radio spots you name it its on it you almost have to be a hermit not to know its coming i know its money but to make money you have to spend money we all will stick with jpd as long as jpd sticks with us

[staginglt]

>> 15-20 racer's that the only time they come out is for 3000

Even if the rest of the purse was the same and they bumped up the winner to $3,000, it would take almost 100 cars to pay the purse. It's just not realistic. If Pageland guaranteed $3,000 to win every week, the car count would not go up by much.

>> so where do'es that leave us now like i said purse going down everwhere but the racer's expense's are steadliy rising

Track expenses keep going up, too. Catch-22... gotta have money to make money. It's the same for them as it is for us. Even though Pageland doesn't pay as much on top as other tracks, your chances of winning at Pageland are double that of anywhere else! I find the 2-hour trip to Pageland to be a very good investment. I've already made more money at Pageland this year than I did at Farmington, Mooresville, and Piedmont all put together last year. I had two R/U's at Farmington (8-rounds each) back to back, which totaled $700. Going back to back *5* rounds at Pageland was $1,220! Plus, the round money is double anywhere else except for Mooresville. I can make a good chunk of my expenses back most times.

Guys can chase big money all they want, but the fact is, *most* guys aren't going to cash in. Don't get me wrong, I chase big money races, and I run IHRA National and Divisional events. I'm well aware that all I'm doing at those races is gambling that I'm going to 'hit the big one' sometime during the season. It costs $12-15K to run a season at that level. I made $40K one year doing it, and I've made $5K doing it. It's a big gamble. I thoroughly enjoy racing at Pageland because I know I can have a great time at the race track, and I'm not worried about eating the next week -- even though I'm not going to get rich there, I'm not going to blow a ton of money, either. Trust me, I've been down the other road... I had $13 to my name last September, had bills due the next week, and went to the IHRA Pro-Am double header at Carolina. I put everything on my credit card, and was lucky enough to get a r/u and a win in the two races. Scary stuff... It's really taught me perspective, and appreciation for the low buck local racing opportunities that are afforded to us.

>> it seem's to me that we need to try and go back to our grass root's what ever it takes to get the car's to come to our track

A lot of tracks are trying to figure that out. The Carolina Coalition is now dead - so evidently the top-heavy purses *aren't* the answer. The Carolina Cup race at Mooresville did very well in Top, but Footbrake pulled car counts similar to the Coalition. I'm not sure what the answer is. Everything has been tried by *somebody*... big money on top, spread the money around toward the top, paying way back... nothing seems to be pulling the numbers of cars it needs to support itself.

>> maybe look at some 2500-or 3000 to win races instead of the 7000 like you're doing in JULY

The Ultimate Doorslammer event is actually an event that I'm promoting. There's the $3,000 race Friday night for just a $60 entry, too, so I'd expect to see all the guys that want to run for that kind of money on that night! Saturday's $7,000 race pays back over 87% and I set it up so that you can recoup *all* of your investment by winning just 3 rounds. I can't figure out how to make a better race than that!

bryn1 wrote:
>> not trying to make it all in one weekend but make a lil every weekend
>> the big races are nice but with big money comes big entry fees

Thanks... that's what it took me a half hour to try to say. :whoops:

$.02,

[1badgtoHRT4]

Mike going back to the HRT CLASS no it's not all about the money & this is just a thought i think a free teck card to HRT if you at the FOF may be strecthing it a little bit maybe if at the FOF and would like to run on SAT you get 1/2 off a tech but then here is the catch we used to do this at little DARLINGTON WINNER OF THE RACE GET 50.00 R/U 25.00 PLUS TROPHY but must be none electronic car's slicks OK heck for this i might would try my luck with the F250 if Anne give me the ok:laughing: but it is like you posted there are two groups of people here those that just want fun run's and those that really like the sport if i can be of any help just ask i'll do what ever i can to keep the racer's & spectator's coming to JPD JUST MY THOUGHT'S
Billy

Billy,
I agree with the 1st series almost over we need to look into how we can get a better car count in HRT, (althought that GOAT Rocks) LOL. Maybe raise the enrty fee to $20.00 or so, and do a small payout? No Electronics No Slicks? DR (Drag Radials) Allowed. Or do a points shoot out during the year, and the top 5 or so do a money shoot out at years end plus champions trophy? Either that or start paying the Friday Night guys bounty $$ to run that GTO.

[2camaroracing]

MB i was'nt talking about boosting the purse up to 3000 i may not have made it clear what i was saying was when the purse's started droping then the garunteed car count came into play buybacks came in these guy's started setting home do the math & yes the track overhead has went up to but the purse has droped anyway you look at it not just at our track but every where what i'm saying is that these guy's now you figure if you pay 45 for 1200 at 2 races that's 90 for a possible 2400 most of them look at it i can pay 75-80 & run for 3000 & yes there are alot of these races going on also i was just saying we need to try some 2500-3000 dollar race's during the year not at every weekly race maybe keep the purse where it's at but try something again like we were doing a couple a years ago just an example used to be anthing over 40 car's $20 for each car over was added to the purse there was no min & the purse was $1200 for $40 now it's no min $45 for a $1000 maybe need to look at adding to the purse (example)anthig over 35 get's $15 added in pro & i use pro because i do'nt know anything about FB as for the big money race in July i love it i thank you for putting it into action & also the pay out sturctre i hope it goes over well i know we will be there both day's i to wish there was a easy soluation (i know my spelling stinks) but you get the point like i posted before no matter what the outcome as long as JPD sticks with us we'll stick with them at our brkt race's which is more than some of the racer's will say lot's of racer's want hardly drive out the back yard to go any where else but we drive past DID every weekend & now with Midway opening back up which is only 40 min from us but guess where we will be ya got it
have a good one Billy

[staginglt]

>> a couple a years ago just an example used to be anthing over 40 car's $20 for each car over was added to the purse there was no min & the purse was $1200 for $40 now it's no min $45 for a $1000 maybe need to look at adding to the purse (example)anthig over 35 get's $15 added in pro
<<

At 35 cars, the track is at break even (entry vs purse... they're still in the hole for expenses then). In order for the track to be viable (not even viable, but just to barely cover their expenses), they really need to make probably $800 per class, which would be about 52 Pro cars. With the idea of adding $15/car over 35 cars, you'd then have to pull 65+ cars. With 65 cars, you'd be running for $1,450 instead of $1,000. I really don't think that is going to double the car count.

It'd be easier to reward high car counts by doing a run-off race between the Top and Mod winners. How about a $500 runoff if Top & Mod go over 100 cars combined?

I'm not sure I understand how people think about money... I got $660 for winning Footbrake the other week (5 rounds), and the Top winner got $700 for going 6 rounds, because they split, and had no contingency decals on the car. Everybody wants to say that they'll only race for $1,500 or $2,000 to win, but nobody really races for that anyway.

At another track down the road, they need a 40 car min in Pro to pay $1000/$400/$100 ($1,600 total purse), with two rounds of buybacks! You could go 5 rounds there and get absolutely nothing. Pageland pays out over $1,800 with 35 cars! I'll be honest, I will not support a track that only paid four places. How many times can you go 5 rounds and leave empty-handed before you get burned out, chasing the 'big money' which really isn't there anyway?

God Bless Mike and the rest of the gang for even putting up with us. It really shows their dedication to hang in there. I wouldn't blame them if they "only" paid out 100% of the entry fees, to keep from losing money on a class.

I've tried to do what I can. I brought a spectator with me one week, and another racer on another week. I've brought in some sponsorship for the track. It's all just little stuff, but if everybody could bring one more spectator or racer with them, or get some local business to contribute something to the track, it would add up in a hurry.

[BHicks9411]

Michael, I think what Billy is alluding to is in the past when Pageland paid $1200 to win in PRO with $15 rd for round money the car count was higher. Further back than that it was $1200 to win but if 40 or more cars it was $1500 to win! Now, weather whomever is making money or not, when doomaclachi is sitting at home on Saturday deciding weather to race or not, he's thinking, da_n, entry $5 more, points still $25, points fund is gone, half 50/50 gone, winner's purse is $200-$500 lower(according to the times their remembering), my buddies aren't going, cost of living and cost of racing has risen but the only thing I'm gaining is double the round money. Well their's a few more negatives than plusses.

I applaude Pageland for sticking to their purse structure this year. Last Saturday was the first I had attended(watched) and no their isn't as many cars, but I walked away fairly impressed. Like you say Michael it is pretty good money for the AMOUNT of cars and rounds. I don't blame you a bit for coming down to Pageland. You're GOOD and you know it. If your competition at Pageland is 20-30 footbrake cars with honestly 5 or so you worry about, versus 50-60 footbrake cars at other tracks with 10 or so heavy hitters, you're going where you KNOW you can make rounds for the SSS. I got dibbs on the blue Nova all day long though:smile: . Gotta talk a little trash!

Good luck to everyone this weekend, especially Pageland Dragway. Thanks Mike Bradley for your help this week and I'll see you Monday.

Michael and Billy, keep up the banter and maybe someone can come up with something to make most happy. If nothing else it gives me something to read! Thanks

[2camaroracing]

yes MB i to thank Mike & the gang for putting up with us & your are right about the track down the rd that is why we don't support it but i will stick my neck out & say if JPD went to a 100% pay back program the car's that are coming now would be cut in 1/2 i'm like you i've brought 2 spectator's to each race this year & maybe in a couple of wk's the other car will be back & no i'm not a money mathmatic's person but i've been in the sport for 20 plus yr's seen a lot of different thing's going on & this is the worst i've ever seen it if i'm worng i'll be the first to admitt it but in this day & age if you want to make money then you got to spend it( bottom line)my thing is people are not going to keep driving the distance's that some of them do to support the local track's if they see bigger money 40-50 mile's away

[staginglt]

>> points fund is gone

And that $5K comes from where? If Pageland put up a $10,000 points fund, and guaranteed $2,000/win every week, how many more cars would come? And Pageland does have a points fund -- it's just not called that per se... Pageland will be supporting its team members that attend the Bracket Finals.

>> winner's purse is $200-$500 lower

Last year was $1200/$250... I'm guessing people probably split it $800/$650. This year they're splitting $700/$600. A good racer may make two final rounds, a difference of $200 on the season. The difference that the doubled round money makes on the season would likely average more than $200. In the big scheme of things, things really haven't changed that much. And for guys that don't make two finals a year, they're going to make more money than before. It's perception vs reality. You can make it $1,800/win (PERIOD! Winner take all, split it how you want.) Would that 'advertising' scheme suit people better?

And I can't see people complaining about $5 higher entry fee when so many people in the region are used to buying back twice, running 8 and 9-round races for $1,500. Mooresville has the best purse structure in the region, but they had great car counts *before* they upped the purse. It doesn't work the other way, unfortunately. And even so, you're looking at $60 entry for $2,000... win 6 rounds at Pageland ($45 entry), get $700 (after split). Win 6 rounds at Mooresville = $300. Just like playing the lottery. Yeah, if you win, it's great. If you don't, well.... That's all we're doing at Pro-Ams. We're going to take a big hit every weekend just in the hopes that we're going to win one a year, and cover our season's expenses.

>> Last Saturday was the first I had attended(watched)

Car's not broke is it???? Saw you were going rounds at Mooresville the other week. Maybe see you at Piedmont tomorrow. (Where we'll pay $125 to run for $1,000! Figure that out...) You have to play to win... I show up to support the program whenever I can. If everyone else would, too, then we'd have more cars, and then we could start talking about purse, funds, etc. again!

>> I got dibbs on the blue Nova all day long though . Gotta talk a little trash!

Hard to argue with that! I'm *lucky* enough to be 2-0 against the Big Show this year, but he's been dead-on against me both times. I'm my number will be up next time! :nailbite: Couldn't race a better guy!

[Tom 396]

"...You can make it $1,800/win (PERIOD! Winner take all, split it how you want.) Would that 'advertising' scheme suit people better?..."

Hush! Some things are better left unsaid. :frown: Take care. Tom Worthington.

http://www.hotrodder.com/Tom396

[BHicks9411]

Congrats on your R/U at Pageland and WIN at Piedmont Michael. And yeah, had the motor out of the car that week, needed a heart transplant. I agree with most of what you're saying with the payout. No problem here. But apparently other people have a problem with it. Now the points fund.....the racer pulling in the gate doesn't care were any track gets the money for the points fund. They see that for the past 10 years at Pageland Dragway there was at least $2400 in TOP to split to the TOP 5. Always been $1500 to win. Always cost $25 to enter. We'll still cost $25 to enter......but $ZILCH, ZERO to WIN:banghead: . And if you don't know 2nd through 5th get nothing too. And don't say a word about the SSS money. That's coming from the SSS as a BONUS:biggrin2: . Hince the $10 right?

[staginglt]

Sucks about the motor.... git 'r done. Good luck with it.

>> We'll still cost $25 to enter......but $ZILCH, ZERO to WIN

70 points members last year x $25 = $1,750.

Between Bracket Finals entries, t-shirts, food, gas cards, etc. the track is putting back upwards of $5,000 back to the racers. There's also about $2,200 worth of transmission work and tires out there to win, plus Gold Cards, plus trophies, plaques, and jackets. Can Pageland compete with what Mooresville is doing? No. ('course nobody else in the region can either!)

I also run points at Rockingham. $50 to join points. $500 & a jacket to the class champs. 6 points races all year. Pay your own way to the Bracket Finals. They did give us nice shirts and fed us *really* good last year.

You and I run points in IHRA. $65 membership and license... that's your "points". Winner and R/U in the Pro-Am points get money. I was 2nd in Div. 9 last year and got $500. $1,500 and a Gold Card when I won Div. 1 in 2003. By comparison... Pageland is putting four times the paid points monies back into the racers.

I've raced at dozens of tracks, from Texas to the Carolinas to Michigan and Canada. You guys don't know how good you've got it!

[BHicks9411]

Yeah but if you'll notice we're the only stupid one's(Pageland cars) you see running the IHRA races. The Pageland crowd don't spend stupid money. That's all I'm saying. Its change. Any change is difficult, right? Well, when you change something you did for 10 years and it effects the customer(racers) pocket book(smart money) in any way shape or form, be it short term or long term, guarnteed money or hopeful money, the business is going to take a hit. Plain and simple. I understand the business part as you do about what the track puts out. I can add, subtract, multiply and divide as good as anyone. But look at the cold.....hard.....numbers the racer is seeing from his side. He is the guranteed customer and the hopeful business man(win rounds) when he rolls in the gate. Honest smart people are going to go with the gurantee. Its great that these extra sponsers are putting stuff to the points champion. But how many people do you think are gonna spend the $2k plus for the parts in a Abruzzi tranny. I WOULD but I'm STUPID:biggrin2: .

[staginglt]

>> He is the guranteed customer and the hopeful business man(win rounds)

That's why I race at Pageland! It's the best deal, IMHO.

>> But how many people do you think are gonna spend the $2k plus for the parts in a Abruzzi tranny.

Jason Lynch won the Q/R World Championship (and tons of big money bracket races) with Abruzzi's Super Pro 'Glide: $1,180 off the shelf, new. The $500GC's for the champs are for labor, which means they can get their own trans rebuilt for cheap... nobody has to buy a $3,500 T/D trans, spend $2K in parts, etc!

Man! Sometimes I feel like you can hand a guy a free drink and he'd complain that it wasn't cold enough!

[furr980]

man, i feel like this post has gotten outta hand. this was just supposed to be a post for racers to post their opinions on the way this season is goin. the things we like and dont like. not whos doin what, how we did it years ago because lets face it people, today isnt like it was back then. we need new racers and the ones who use to to come back. people will come every nite if there was something that interest them. i have kids in my youth group who go to the movies every weekend on friday and saturday and and even sunday if they can get away with it. gear heads are the same way. it all the racers and track owners faults for not changing with the times. that goes for me too. also circle tracks are suffering. we need to find out what it will take for the younger generation to come back on saturdays and find out what the fans want and do it. mooresville isnt doin all that great as far as racers is concerned.yea they have about 100-120 cars there every saturday night but most of those racers were racers from farmington and piedmont who decided to race at mooresville, not new ones. mooresville had only 83 FB cars there saturday night which is pathetic because farmington adn piedmont both were closed to FBs because of big money top race and division race at piedmont. but they aernt doin as good as they think because if farmington gets their act back together most of those racers will go back to farminton which will leave mooresville low again. since theres nothing to really do in pageland theres no excuse as to why the stands shouldnt be full. but this post was intended to pick everybodys brain about this year and what we can do for this year or next year.and i still dont like all the bonus points given to the winners and runners-up because it surely serperates themselves real quick from the rest of the field. you can win on consistancy you have to go to finals to catch up and not everybody can.

[BHicks9411]

Agreed. This could go on forever:eek: . THE END

[2camaroracing]

Allen i agree with you therefore i do want to appogliz to anyone who may have read these post & got the wrong idea JPD is a great place to race at and a place that i would'nt hesitate to bring my family or any of my friends to just for a outing if i stepped on your toe's or MB's toe's then i'm sorry i was just stating my $.02:banghead: & feel some people got the wrong idea as you stated we all need to work together to build our Track into being the best facilty around

[ricky]

Well I was'nt going to get in this,but I just could'nt hold it in.Not meaning to offend any one but, if you in this for the $$$ you are:banghead:.I'm not as good as I use to be but i go when i can because the only thing i like better than the competition of the race, is helping other folks so they can race.billy,i ve been at this for so long,all i got for runner up at blaney dragstrip was a stinking trophy(in 1978) but i,m sure joe mccoy has me beat tho.I've split and come home ****** off with 900.00 and did'nt split and come home happy as **** with 50.00(ask butch burton) he cussed for 50 miles.fact is ,do it because you like it,some times you're the bug ,some times you're the windshield.Oh yeah. I still got that trophy.

[2camaroracing]

Ricky i can relate to the trophy so we must be some where of the same age & i know that's it's not all about the money & i'm not starting these post's again i for one think that it went to far & maybe i was part the blame & yes once again everyone need's to try to help & bring BRACKET RACING back

[ricky]

cuz you aint done nothing or said nothing wrong,you got every rite to say what you want.i agree with you for the most part,but we got 8 tracks with in 2.5 hrs. of each other and these guys are trying to get er done every weekend .the answer is out there some where.we just got to keep slinging horse poop ,we'll find a pony sooner or later.c-ya